No matter what kind of story you’re writing, you only get one chance to make a first impression on your reader. It has to go beyond good—way beyond—to turn that first impression into commitment.

We’re asking a lot of our readers. To commit their time and attention to our stories. To devote their hearts to our characters. To invest their excitement in every twist and turn of our plots. Readers know it’s a big ask. So, we have to put the goods on the table from the very first page—starting with the first sentence.

This six-week, small-group, live, Zoom workshop will help you craft an unforgettable opening.

Join us at the Story Works Round Table for a fascinating discussion with YA authors K.T. Engelhart, Tricia Copeland, and C.C. Robinson as they explore the nuances of young adult fiction and the importance of character development. We talk about the universal appeal of Young Adult Fiction, the importance of relationships with teenage protagonists, and how to build the thematic resonance of young adult fiction. 

“Friendships in YA are essential because they help develop the character into who they identify as.” – Tricia Copeland

“The innocence and wonder of YA fiction is something we lose as we grow older.” K.T. Anglehart

 

 

AUDIO

 

 

 

TRANSCRIPT

 

This transcript is AI generated. If you notice any inconsistencies or errors, blame the bot.

Alida Winternheimer: This week at, the StoryWorks Roundtable, we’ve got three fascinating authors of YA fiction joining me and Ktherine. We talk about the distinctions between young adult and adult fiction, that crucial stage of life when we form our identities and the role of friendships and destiny in these narratives, exploring tough issues while keeping it real for a younger audience. And of course, we talk about story development, their writing process. And we have a lot of fun doing it, because when don’t we? If you’re ready to master act one, you’ll want to check out my workshop Write great openings. It starts in April and seats are limited. This is a live workshop. Nothing is pre recorded. We’ll be reading first acts from across genres, and every writer will get individual attention, have their writing workshoped, and come away with the stellar first act. Head over to wordessential.com workshops to get the details and register today. All right, Enjoy this week’s episode with K.T. Anglehart, Trica Copeland, and C.C. robinson.

Alida Winternheimer: Hello and welcome to this week’s StoryWorks Roundtable. Today, Catherine and I are delighted be joined by three accomplished YA authors. We are talking about YA fiction today, obviously, and as I like to do with panels, I’m going to let the authors introduce themselves so that you can associate their name and their book title with their voice right off the bat. So, Trisha, I will let you start.

Trica Copeland: Thank you, Alita. Thank you, Catherine, for having me. I have two YA series. One begins with Kingdom of Embers and one begins what to be a Fae queen. They are interconnected series with witches, witch hybrids, and fairies, obviously. so I think I’ll mostly be talking about those today.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent. K.T..

K.T. Anglehart: Hey. I’m, well, sorry. K.T. Angelhartt. I, go by Katrina, but just know me as K.T. Anglehart. And, I am an author also of urban fantasy esque, young adult. And, my book is about a, teenager who learneds she has magical gifts and journeys to Ireland in search of answers and finds herself as the bridge to a realm of spirits, witches, and also fairies. So I think our books look great on a shelf together.

 

Alida Winternheimer: All right, Cece.

C.C. Robinson: Hi, I’m Cece Robinson and I’m the author of the young adult dystopian Divided series. And if you can imagine a racial dystopia, I know it’s really hard to do, but a racial dystopia set in a, urban, middle, America setting about five decades in our future. And that is what divide it is.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent.

C.C. Robinson: No witches, no ba.

K.T. Anglehart: I don’t think I said the title of my book. But don’t. I’m sure it’s plugged somewhere so it’s fine.

Alida Winternheimer: Well go ahead and tell us your title.

K.T. Anglehart: M. It’s called the Scottish Scrolls, series. So there you go.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent. Thank you. so to begin with, what makes a book YA as opposed to adult? I mean obviously the age of the main characters matters. So beyond the age of the characters, what do you think about when you say okay ya.

K.T. Anglehart: I tend to think of self, discovery, a lot. And I think the age matters quite a bit too. There’s, it’s always kind of that like prime teen age and so much goes on during that time. Right. So like the, the first loves and the, the you know, the hormones and the impulsiveness and I think a bit of that innocence to like it feels ya when it’s that age group that it’s probably the first thing I think of.

Trica Copeland: I think I would piggyback ono that because I was thinking it’s definitely that coming of age story and not to repeat its self discovery and finding belonging and purpose. And obviously that may ah, not form by age 18. It may not form by age 25. But definitely that’s the biggest, I think at least for my stories, it’s kind of the biggest thing you’renna see whether you’re in a witch world or a fairy world.

C.C. Robinson: The only thing I would add is that the readership is aimed at the teenage readership. But YA readership does not necessarily stop at age 18. but the stories definitely are made to appeal to that age group and may to help in a way help that age group through whatever they’re going through. let them know hey, you’re not the only one who’s gone through this. Other people survive this. And look, you can have hope.

K.T. Anglehart: Christriy I love, I just want toa say I love that you said it’s not just for 18 year olds or 16 year olds reading it. I mean obviously I love when like a 15 year old reads my book. I’m very, very happy about that. But I’ve gotten so many like adult readers or like retired readers are like the age is so difficult to pinpoint. It’s just you just kind of have to want to be in that mindset or want to be in that world. So who I is for, I don’t know, it’s really for those who just like love it.

C.C. Robinson: I had a 60 plus female book club read my books.

K.T. Anglehart: There you go.

C.C. Robinson: Really?

Trica Copeland: Wow.

C.C. Robinson: And they loved it. I Was like wow, that really just shocked me.

K.T. Anglehart: Brings you back to yes, I guess like I still love picking up. I haven’t read it in forever but I used to reread like the Harry Potter series really often like well in my 20s. I don’t have time for that anymore. But I loved it. Just made me feel like 13 and was just great.

Alida Winternheimer: Why are these stories so beloved by readers of all ages? What makes a 60 plus book club? What attracts them to a YA story and makes them love it?

Trica Copeland: That’s I think it’s like experiencing things for the first time and the youth and the resilience and sometimes I think when we’re younger lot we feel a lot more freedom, we feel a lot more unencumbered and maybe we are living more of our authentic lives than when we’re older and we have those safeguards in place of I’m not just going to run out and run after the boy, I’m just going to run out and charge the person that’s doing something wrong. you have more stop gaps when you’re older and I think just the possibilities of those lives that haven’t been.

C.C. Robinson: Fully lived yet I think too an innocence to young adult fiction that we kind of lose when we get into new adult or even adult fiction. and I think there, there’s a certain population that is looking for that, that has turned away from some of the racier fiction and that just is looking for a good story without anything else.

K.T. Anglehart: There’s that yeah, there’s definitely a pessimism with like adult, adult characters and it’s normal. I mean we develop it as we get older and I mean it could be really funny. It could become like a dark, dark kind of funny and it’s great. That’s another style. But I love whya for that, like what you just said, the innocence and the wonder and the I can do this and I can achieve this. And some of the things you’re like your main character is some of the situations they’re put in. If you like replace them with like a 35 year old you’d be like what are you doing? You can’t do that.

C.C. Robinson: Exactly.

K.T. Anglehart: It’s not the same.

Alida Winternheimer: So I’d love to hear about the character development kind of jumping off what you’ve just been saying about YA fiction and the appeal of possibilities and innocence and impulsiveness and purpose and all of these things that kind of have already been pointed out. So tell me about these protagonists you’re Creating. And what sort of things go into developing them, into believable beings?

K.T. Anglehart: That’s such a big question. I don’t know. I’ll just jump in. I don’t even know what I’m saying. So it. I guess. Okay, so, McKenna, I. I kind, of painted her as this slightly pessimistic outcast. And everyone loves an outcast in Ha. Ya. I guess that’s like, also a theme, kind of a trope that’s fun. fish out of water, that sort of thing. And, as she’s coming into her abilities and discovering all these things about herself, you’re learning with her, and I think that’s what’s really fun. And you can develop those characters with, an authenticity because you’re also like, you’you’re. Putting the reader in that, in that stage with her. so that’s what I love about beginnings. Like, you’re not just being thrown into a story where this person’s already like an adult

K.T. Anglehart: witch who does her thing. Like, I love that. Oh, I just discovered I’m. This. This is what I have to do. This is the world I’m now part of. And with all that learning and education comes, I think, so much inspiration. and just like, I think character development just comes with that. and you, like, learn. I learned so much about my protagonist while I was, like, just writing scenes of her discovering new things. Like, I would be like, oh, that’s her reaction, of course. So I don’t know.

C.C. Robinson: M. Yeah, yeah.

Trica Copeland: KT and I were on a podcast last week, and we learned virtual twins in writing era books.

K.T. Anglehart: I know.

Trica Copeland: And mine is sor of reverse of hers because my female protagonist Alina knows she’s a vampire witch hybrid in the beginning, and she has all this supposed knowledge about her history. but being a vampire, whichitch hybrid is forbidden by both vampire and witch laws, so she has to hide all of this from. She pretends she’s a vampire, so she has to hide the fact that she’s a witch. And then when she’s at her human high school, she has to hide everything from everyone. So one of her big questions is, where do I fit in? but then the. The male protagonist in the books is he doesn’t know he’s a witch. And Alina finds him and thinks she sees magic in him, so he’s developing that knowledge and seeing everything for the first time. but I love putting. Well, not just fantasy, really. Any genre in fiction is putting fictional characters in situations that, we Might be in. In our real lives, but it seems safer to watch that character go through that and go through those em motions with that character and think about those issues with that character rather than dealing with them. I think we can learn things from those characters. Where do I belong? How do I figure that out? Where do I fit in? what’s appropriate for me? I think we can learn all those things with the characters. So fun about Laa as well.

C.C. Robinson: So, I think along those lines, I have actually have four main protagonists, and they get developed through four books in a dystopian series. But Marcos is the star of book one. And, I never really did a character sketch of him. He introduced himself to me in a dream. I had a dream where I saw him. I saw him trying to escape, the city. I saw him trying to escape his father. And I just saw this young man who did not know what his strength was, did not realize how capable, how strong he was, and felt like he needed to flee instead of fight, even though he’s a champion boxer.

K.T. Anglehart: I’m sorry, did you say you dreamt this? I’m sorry, I meant.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah, I dreamt it. I dreamt the whole premise of the series and met all my characters like this. Yeah, I did not have a choice. They dragged me in, and they tend to drag me around when I’m plotting too. So this is. I’m very. I dream a lot. So this is not an unusual thing for me. but he just has this tortured, existence, and he’s trying to flee it, and then he gets caught. So he kept landing himself in all these impossible situations. And I’m like, how like a teenager is that? Know some do this. And to me, getting into the head of a young man was a stretch. Good thing I have a son. So I would bounce stuff off of him and I was like, you know, kind of. You’re kind of like my son in this way. A little impulsive. Yes. Check. Smelly sometimes. Check. Eats a whole lot. Check. Thinks about food constantly even.

K.T. Anglehart: Do they know they’re smelly? Is the question.

C.C. Robinson: no. No. He has no clue. Andly his sister was the one who told him. And then after that, it’s the other women around him, the other girls around him, they’re like, e, you stink. And he’s like, what? We all stink. What up about that? So I think getting into their heads, it helps to have models around you, to check for authenticity, but also, just sometimes just letting the character decide what they’re going to do. And who they’re going to be has worked really well for me.

Kathryn: interesting. Okay, I want to jump in here with this character development thing because I’m hearing a lot of like, almost that your character feels unformed at the beginning of your books, maybe because they’re a teenager. Like, they haven’t created a sense of self or a sense of identity yet, which I find really fascinating. And especially in contrast to like, adult fiction, where maybe they have more flaws or problems that they’ve kind of set in their ways. Right. So would that be fair to say you kind of start with more of like a lump of clay type character and unformed type character and allow them to create themselves throughout your books and series?

K.T. Anglehart: I definitely do, but it’s also the type of writer I am. Like, I don’t know if others maybe form their characters and stories a lot more, in. In a much more detailed way before they get to writing. I do it loosely because I kind of start with like a feeling or wanting to follow a certain type of character. I see just like a scene or. I don’t know, it starts off with practically nothing. And then I, definitely get to know them as I write. But I just want to say, and I’m sure we’ll dive into this, I will stop myself to get an outline going the roughest possible. Because if I just continue like following this character and like just seeing where they go, the story will end up being like the soggiest, saggiest, whatever the expression is the worst. Muddy. I’m not Stephen King. I can’t quite like, follow the character and then create a masterpiece. So not yet. But, yeah, I don’t even know if isw.

C.C. Robinson: so go on. Yeah, I’m with you. I meet my characters by writing the stories. So I don’t actually write the story, the main story. I wrote a bunch of like, scenes of them growing up so that I could see them as younger kids. And they definitely all have flaws. And those flaws are pretty apparent to me. But they generally think that, oh, whatever, that’s not. I can’t do anything about that, or that’s not my fault or whatever. They tell themselves those lies, which is also flaw. so I meet my characters and then, yeah, I do outline once I’ve got a decent idea of where I’m going.

Alida Winternheimer: Ye.

Trica Copeland: So this is a really interesting question for me too, because my books are. It’s called the Kingdom Journals, so it’s written from first person perspective of each of the different witches. as the story progresses so you have very different personalities coming out. And a lot of the feedback I get. So we start with Alina and she’s in the beginning pretty selfish and she’s half vampire, so she’s very flighty and quick and she reacts quickly and maybe doesn’t think. And those are, maybe a little self. I already said selfish. Right.

K.T. Anglehart: she definitely starts out is how you really feel.

Trica Copeland: I know, yeah. So the interesting. But because you have that first person perspective, you hear how she feels about things and how much she cares about things, where you might not see that as an onlooker looking, at her or looking as the books progress. Some of the feedback I’ve gotten from readers is like, well, she doesn’t seem like herself in these other books, but you’re looking at her through the eyes of a different character. You’re not looking at her through her own eyes. And she’s much nicer to herself probably than other characters are. so at first when I was getting that feedback, I was like, this doesn’t really make sense to me. And then when I thought about it and how she thought about herself versus maybe how the other characters were viewing her, it was a very different perspective. That was interesting and fun to me to realize about how I wrote the books and how they were perceived and how different characters were perceived by each other.

Alida Winternheimer: So do you think that readers were continuing to identify with Alina as the protagonist even though you had switched to different point of view characters in future books? Were they so attached to Alina that they weren’t understanding what you just explained? Yeah.

Trica Copeland: So there may have been a disconnected. It may have been I didn’t write it as well as I could. I mean, I’m not going to be perfect about that. and maybe I was just seeing Lena in that and I saw her as being contiguous and the same, but obviously, at least, of course. And I’m going to pick out the one review that was negative about my book. so yeah, I mean, obviously that person didn’t see that. Or if you’re in book four and Al Len’s perspective was in book one, I mean that’s kind of a big jump since you’ve gotten her voice. and all the characters are in all the books. We’re just hearing it through m someone else’s perspective. So think the protagonist stay stagnment or the group of protagonists stay stagnment. We’re just hearing first person, different voice.

Alida Winternheimer: Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I would not assume that’s with the writing. I think readers, as readers, we tend to latch ono the character we identify with. So even in a series like this where the point of view is changing, those readers who really identify with the Lena might not be able to kind of shift how they’re receiving the story.

Trica Copeland: No, that’s true.

K.T. Anglehart: I think a lot of readers aren’t. Not a lot of readers, I should say so there are some readers that just don’t like the other perspectives and that’s why they’ll go like a first person or whatever other readers love when the perspective is shifted. So maybe, yeah, you got a reader who’s like, oh man, no, I just want to stick with, with this POV and stuff. And I was actually so my first, my debut was. It was also my thesis statement. This not statement. It was my thesis project in in my master’and my mentor kept telling me, why are you switching perspectives? No one cares about the adults. Like no teenager would care about the adults. And I’m like, what are you talking about? I was like, first of all, that would change the entire story if I had’t. If I don’t switch perspectives here and there. Like it’s like for the most part it’s McKena’s point of view, but I switch it for like, for depth and for like just to get to know those, those other guys a little bit more. And like the way like you said, the way they see the main character, the way they see McKenna. And I’m so glad I didn’t listen to her feedback. It would have just been entirely different. And then I was also thinking like when I was a kid and you’d watch like Full House very this is like the most basic example. I loved the adult drama. I was like Uncle Jessie and Aunt Becky are my life. And I was like 5 years old. So I’m thinking you’re still as a teenager gon toa enjoy the drama that goes on with the parents. Like, you know, it’s not the main thing, but it’s important and it affects the main character.

Alida Winternheimer: Yeah. Well then as a teenager, don’t you want to have that window into your parents heads and your teachers heads and stuff. And you know when it kind of fuel your fire a little bit too to be like they can’t see me that way out there’such.

K.T. Anglehart: A great way of putting it. Yeah.

Alida Winternheimer: Yes. Yeah. Okay, before we move, on kt, I want you to remind everybody the title. You’re talking about your protagonist, McKenna. Ah. And she is the Protagonist of,

K.T. Anglehart: The Wise One is book one in the Scottish Scrolls series. Thank you for making me say that. I’m so bad at plugging myself in.

Alida Winternheimer: Well, and we’re having a conversation and it’s audio for listeners and so I just want to make sure we, we have the chance to do this. So, Trish.

K.T. Anglehart: Well, you’re very thoughtful.

Alida Winternheimer: Trisha Alina, the protagonist of, Kingdom.

Trica Copeland: Of Embers in the Kingdom Journal series.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent. Cce, Go for it. Let’s just get them all in here right now. Yeah.

C.C. Robinson: Marcos is the main protagonist in, Divided, which is book one in the Divided series.

Alida Winternheimer: Exc.

K.T. Anglehart: You’re really good at that.

C.C. Robinson: I don’t know what to say to that. It’s a lot of practice in front of a mirror and a lot of cringe, I’m sorry to say.

Kathryn: Which is so funny because, I mean, we all love our characters in our books so much. Right, but it’s just. Yeah, I know.

K.T. Anglehart: Writers. Yeah, writers don’t want to talk about themselves. This is a nightmare. No, I’m joking. Okay. I love.

C.C. Robinson: My brother in law was in sales and he literally made me sit down and do this.

K.T. Anglehart: Wow.

C.C. Robinson: So it’s good. It’s good.

Alida Winternheimer: It is good. That’s amazing.

C.C. Robinson: It was torture, but it was good.

Alida Winternheimer: Yes.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah.

Alida Winternheimer: Okay, so quick aside. Last night I was telling some acquaintances that, ah, at a club, that I have an author event coming up next week in case they were interested. And one of them said, what’s your book about? And I just tripped all over my tongue. Two minutes. I’m like, oh my. Okay. I do actually know what my book is about. So I will be rehearsing in front of the mirror. Chris.

K.T. Anglehart: Cc.

C.C. Robinson: Yes, you will. Yes, you will. I fore see airror in your future.

Alida Winternheimer: Oh, very much so, yeah. So, cec, you mentioned that in this dream, Marcos had all of the strength he didn’t know he had. He had to fleea. And with all of you, maybe all of YA fiction, it seems like there’s a question of destiny. These young people coming of age don’t know what their future is going to require of them. so I want to hear about your character’s destiny and how you think about that as authors.

C.C. Robinson: I think, it’s a big topic for a teenager to think about, right? This big thing called destiny. And how am I gonna accomplish it? How do I get there? And maybe sometimes, they run the other way and that’s how I feel. Marcos did. He kind of ran the other way. But you can’t run Away from your destiny. He literally ran right into it. And I think there’s an appeal in the young adult literature, to do this sort of, plot arc. and I think it works. And I don’t think it’s overdone, in the least. But I do think that there’s a lot of kids who then look at that and go, oh, make some question. What’s my destiny? What am I supposed to do with my life? And how do I figure that out? And maybe our fictional characters can provide a little bit of inspiration for some thought time.

K.T. Anglehart: That’s really well said. I don’t even know what to say. inspiration is the right. Is the right word for it. Like, the. The whole destiny thing is such a huge, ginormous big thing and such a big deal. And I think even into our adults where we’re still like, what is my destiny, pray tell, you know? But u. But yeah, they. It’s not a ya without, like, something big like that. Right. So, it’s just a lot of fun. And it does make. It’s a lot of introspection, which is. Which is really good to have in that kind of brain development age. I don’t know. I love a good. I just love a good, like, psychological, like, freak out and like, what am I supposed to do? And why is this happening to me? and it’s kind of a dream. It is inspirational. It’s kind of like I kind of wish, like, someone just gave me, like, I don’t know, like a wand and is like, well, this is your destiny. We’re all relying on you, like, in a way, because at least you know what to do. I’m just like, writing books. Who knows why I’m doing that?

Alida Winternheimer: Well, wouldn’t it be nice if you received that calling when you were 17 or 18 instead of 30 or 40 or 50?

C.C. Robinson: Yeah.

K.T. Anglehart: Although it’be interesting as in, like the golden years, you know, like, that would be an interesting twist. I like that too.

Alida Winternheimer: M. Yeah. Trisha, how do you think about destiny and your characters arcs?

Trica Copeland: Destiny is huge in my series because there’s a curse on the witch lines, and the prophecy says that three witches, or a trinity witches that are born at the turn of the century have to come together, find this lance, and then break the curse. But in the beginning, none of them know that they’re one of the Trinity, but they all have so and they realized that they were playing together as imaginary friends, as toddlers. So that’s the first connection that the first two characters, Alina and Hunter have. They see each other in real life as 17 year old teenagers and they’re like I know that person. But that person was supposed to be imaginary. How can that be for the human hunter? He’s even more. How can that be? Because the witch Alina is like oh yeah, this is something witchy. but they still have to make that decision. Hunter has to make the decision if he’s going to really discover if magic is real, if he’s going to believe all this. And Alina has to decide, oh, am I going to put myself out there at a hunter? Because she could get burned alive at the stake if she tells a human she’s a witch. they all have these major decisions. If they’re going to follow their gut or their calling or what is drawing them or is that completely crazy and insane and they stay with the status quo. The third character, at least in the book series has much bigger stakes because she’s seeing the other two characters and they can’t find her. They’re looking for her but she’s seeing them in these dreams and visions and she thinks she’s going crazy. Which a lot of people don’t like that storyline in YA sometimes and related to magic but I wrote it anyway. so then she thinks she has this mental illness. She’s trying to discover this and m. So it’s really. Yeah. It’s a huge destiny component in there. It’s like okay, well what if I don’t do this? Who am I if I don’t do this? They don’t make that. Don’t get to know what happens to them. Right. They’re going to go back and be normal teenagers. That would be just fine too.

K.T. Anglehart: I just want to add, people might not like that storyline but it’s such a natural reaction to like wait, is it just. Am I just going crazy? Like you have to put in some, some dial inner dialogue there. Like definitely. Like first thing that my character does in that the chapter in chapter one is like confront her her dad’s and she’s like is there something you’re not telling me? Like am I like losing. Am I losing it? So it’s just a normal. I think it’s needed sometimes.

Trica Copeland: I think it was a part about the mental illness. Like she decides she’s mentally ill. And I think that sometimes people don’t like to put mental illness in with magic. Righteah.

Alida Winternheimer: Interesting. So what about reader and genre expectations and you just said readers don’t like that kind of storyline in the genre of what else do you bump up against and do you go with it and enjoy playing with that or do use sub vet reader expectations? How do you manage that in your own writing and process?

C.C. Robinson: Well, it’s changed a lot for young adult dystopian, that’s for sure. you go back to the days of Divergent and we had a tragic ending and literally, people returning the books and really? Yes. Oh yeah, it was bad. Like it was really bad that it kind of tanked ya dystopian for a little while with traditional publishers. but now I feel like, dystopian. And why dystopian in particular is on the rise again. And I think people want to see, characters taking action in a way that produces change. And I’m not. So the verdict is still out. Whether they’re looking for the happy ending or if they’ll be okay with tragedies. It seems like the inddya dystopian series that are doing well all have a satisfying conclusion. I will put it like that. Maybe not. They all lived happily ever after, but it has a satisfying conclusion. So we’ll see how this develops and changes. It’s literally only been in the last few weeks that dystopian is trending upward again. So, do I play into reader expectations trying to figure out what they are?

Alida Winternheimer: Right.

K.T. Anglehart: Are you playing into your reader expectations for your genre?

C.C. Robinson: Oh, for me, I would say yes. I mean I hit a lot of the major tropes of, coming of age, found family, a significant problem. The teenagers are the ones fixing things, advancing. they’re fighting against adults who don’t want them to do anything or don’t want anything to change and then partner with other adults who are like, no, go do it. Go, go, go. Like, let’s do this together. So there’s a lot of reader expectations that I do hit. And book two is coming out in June and then the release schedules pretty fast after that. But book four at this point will have a satisfying conclusion. And that’s all I will say.

K.T. Anglehart: I don’t want to talk over anyone. I don’t know. T.R.

Alida Winternheimer: Just jump in. Anyone.

C.C. Robinson: No.

Trica Copeland: D.E.

Alida Winternheimer: E. Right.

K.T. Anglehart: That’s really good. yeah, I would say I write. I don’t, I don’t. The truth is like, I guess I don’t know what readers expect, especially these days anymore. I hate trends, like in every aspect of my life. Like I hate fashion trends. I hate like tik took trends. Like I’m just not that person So I just like timeless sort of things again with every aspect, decor, with whatever. So, I write what I want to read and I think that a lot of people, and I was surprised that a lot of people feel the same way. Like they also are not like expecting you to follow every other trend. Some readers are and are hoping for that. But they’ll find the right books that hit those spots. They will and there’s plenty and they’re fantastic and like super fun and entertaining in that way. But I think, yeah, I think I definitely write what I want to read and it’s a lot of fun and it’s all like pretty much all those tropes you just said. Same thing like Found Family. It just warms my heart. Like things that warm my heart. That is what is in, that’s what’s in my book. And I think you can’t really go wrong with that, you know, especially ya. You want to have all the fields know. You want to have the atmosphere and bit of spookiness and mystery. and just like this mysticism that you don’t quite understand. Like it’s. I don’t know. Yeah.

Alida Winternheimer: Yeah, yeah.

Trica Copeland: I think you have to play a little bit into reader expectations. So when I wrote my F series I had it. I didn’t read like what people were writing about the Fae. So I gave my Fae wings. They can tell a lie if they want to. and they’re not like ironed doesn’tect. So I didn’t go by any of those things. And then when I learned all of those things, I was kind of nervous. I was like, oh, wait, is somebody going to be mad? Are they going to be upset? But generally nobody has said that to me. Nobody has said, wait, your FA are not like the other Fae. I think people are like, oh, well, every series is going to have a little bit different take. and that’s kind of what I did with my vampires and witches too. it doesn’t go way out of something unexpected for a vampire or witch or it’s just little tweaked a little bit differently. So it’s not the same story you’re reading over and over.

K.T. Anglehart: And I think your own spin, right.

Trica Copeland: It’S your own spin on old legends. My vampires can die when they, when usually like 1000 years old. They only live 1000 years and they can die, but they live a long time. So they’re similar but not exactly

Trica Copeland: the same. Right.

Alida Winternheimer: So, relationship subplots. I actually. So I’m going to tie that question to something I noticed on CC’s book description on Amazon. You have a. Let’s see, I’m going to read this here. Content notes for those who need them. I appreciate that qualification. And then you list what the book contains. Parental abuse of an 18 year old. Whipping, execution, gun violence on page secondary character with advanced breast cancer. No sexual content and only made up, curseord. So thinking about genre and reader expectations, including things like relationship subplots, violence, swearing, what is your take? How do you handle that in your own writing? What sort of response do you get from readers when you do or don’t based on what you include in your stories?

C.C. Robinson: Well, because my world is set in the future, I’m not bound by the limitations of today’s language. slang develops and the teenagers are the ones who develop it. And so I let them do that. I let the nation have entirely different forms of slang and cursing. And we hear them and to our western ear they’re kind of funny. Right? They’re not what you expect. but it’s interesting because I’ve had readers use them in their reviews. Really tickles me. I’m gonna get a trucker hat with one of them on it. I just think it’s so funny. but I think it’s important to like warn and dystopian, especially about about violent content, especially when you’re in the YA category which could go down to age 12. And I just am aware that it might be a parent or a grandparent who’s buying that for their grandchild or child. And so I want to let them know what is in it ahead of time and if they’re okay with that. and then breast cancer is. I just was so cautious about someone stepping into that if they’d had a family loss without knowing know. And so I wanted to just give that content warning about that. But yeah, I think it’s important to give that level of content that can be expected. It’s kind of like a reader author contract in a way. And so then you know, especially with young adult, that way we don’t step on people’s sensibilities or just unnecessarily offend them when we could have told them ahead of time, hey, this might be hard if you’ve had abuse in your life, right?

Trica Copeland: I really like that idea cc. I probably need to do more of that. Like in Kingdom Ofers there’s a suicide, but the boy is he doesn’t choose it himself, the witch does it to him. So it’s even maybe worse. So it’s basically a killing which happens in fantasy. And why even happens in YA fantasy. I didn’t watch Harry Potter so I don’t know if people die in Harry Potter.

K.T. Anglehart: But there’s a lot of death.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah, in the last books there is a lot of death.

Trica Copeland: I don’t have that much that but I like subplots because they really round out a character. You’re not just one thing. Even if you’re like on this quest, other things are happening in your life. You’re having other relationships. Falling in love is a natural part of humanity. having a relationship with mothers, fathers, friends, grandparents, all those things contribute to your whole life and around out a person I think and whatever other hobbies or other interests that may come in there. So I think that those can really round out of character and make it feel more real instead of just their whole life is this. And sometimes you have to be that way with the storyline. Mean if this is happening now, you don’t want them running off and taking care of the dog when somebody’s about to die. Right. but yeah, so it just surrounds out the person and makes them more real.

K.T. Anglehart: I feel like I like the warnings that you put out cc because there are a lot of sensitive. There’s a lot of sensitivity around those topics that you spoke about. Especially breast cancer related. Like there was. There was a TV show on Netflix. What was it? Oh my gosh, it was a couple years ago and it looked like a rom com. Like I was so excited and then it was like the saddest. I cried for like eight episodes and I just wish I honestly wouldn’t have gone there because I was not in a great state of mind and I just wouldn’t have watched it if I was told. I mean

K.T. Anglehart: it was great but still. So it’s just, it’s appreciated I think. I don’t really have many warnings. I can’t really think it’s pretty rated like you know, whatever whatever it is 13pl like what’s’s what are. Yeah, that’s. It’s pretty like PG13. So yeah, I don’t really say any warnings but hey, maybe there’s something I’m not aware of that I should.

Alida Winternheimer: Yeah. So when you’re thinking about things like violence or swearing or romantic relationships intimacy, given that your ya category youick be age 12, up through like 18 before people hit that new adult Camp. do you keep the younger section of that age group in mind as you’drafting or you just kind of tell the story you want to tell and let it be what it’going to be? How do you process that?

C.C. Robinson: I really battled with that, especially because of the violence. It’s hard to have a dystopian tale without there being violence. And oppressive regimes are in their nature violent. And I knew I needed to portray that. So I read the Giver. Okay, the Giver in our school district is a sixth grade book.

K.T. Anglehart: I read it in the sixth grade.

C.C. Robinson: As well, which still astounds me. it was not in the curriculum way back in the dark ages when I was in elementary school or middle school. And so I looked at some of the content of 6th and 7th and 8th grade and it helped that I had three study subjects in my home, during this time. And I decided that I could go there with the violence if I pulled back on the other things. But if I went there in all three, it would probably better be classified as adult dystopian. Does that make sense? So that’s why the content warnings on the violence, but there’s no sexual content and the curses are all made up. So like, okay, we’re pulling back, we’re into the clean on those things, but okay, it’s not clean on the violence. And so that’s the one thing. And I would just encourage parents if they’re buying to know their kids. But often a lot of kids encountering violence at 12 or 13, through video games, through media, TV, other, even on social media. So they’re getting it other, less positive, eventually hope filled ways.

K.T. Anglehart: I was gonna say it’s less controlled because at least with your book, I mean there’s lessons weaved in and like you said like the inspirational characters and like right from wrong and you’re learning from it. Whereas like video games, I mean they’re playing that when they’re what, eight? Like I just, I don’t know. but yeah, what was the question? So I can actually.

Alida Winternheimer: So when you’re thinking about material that might be perfectly fine for a 16, 17, 18 year old, but maybe questionable for that 12 or 13 year old, do you process that? Do you think about it while you’re drafting or do you just kind of let the story be what is going to be and then, you know, how aware are you of your readership and does that influence what you put on the page and how you do it?

K.T. Anglehart: I think it’s not something I think about Because I’ve read so much of that genre in that. When I was that age, not now. So I think of what I read when I was 13, 14, 15, 16. And I really, to be honest, I don’t think more about it. Like I’m like this is how it’s unfolding. U. and, and I know it’s like an instinct. It’s like. Well, I know I’m not going toa describe that. will kind of like shut the lights or whatever. Like you just know like where you’re going with it without. It’s definitely a feeling. I think every author has research is great. Like if you, if you feel like you’re not sure, like definitely. Like you know, do your due diligence. But I don’t know, I just, I didn’t, I didn’t think. I didn’t go too deep into it. It just like unfolded.

Trica Copeland: Yeah. And I think it might make a difference. Like what John, you we were writing. I mean there is YA romance with just YA romance. And you might obviously show more physicalacy in a YA romance, but in AAIO fantasy at least mayo YA fantasies, that’s not the main storylineing. People fall in love and we have some sweet kisses and they get excited but that’s really as much romance as you’re going to get. and they become paired up over time. but really the main story is the fantasy. And I don’t like explicit sex things anyway. And to me I’m just going to skim over if it’s in a book anyway. So that’s just not what I like. So writing the fantasy is. It really depends on what the point of your book is and what genre your story is. I think.

K.T. Anglehart: Yeah, if you are reading a romanticy, I mean you want to read something more explicit, I think. But if you’re reading like YA fantasy, they’ll normally. The author will normally say, oh, and this is the spice level or whatever. Otherwise I would say like, don’t expect too much of it unless’it’s said by the author or it’s in that new what everyone’s calling now romanticy category.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah. And I don’t know, even if you made me be more explicit, I don’t think I could do it. I wrote a kiss scene and then like died of embarrassment. Went squealing around my house. So’cut. I don’t know that I could do it. And I’m married with three children, so it’s just. Yeah. So I think there’s a romance. Authors are built different and I’m not built that way.

K.T. Anglehart: They’re good at what they do. Like, it is really difficult. I had such a light, cute, like, kissy kind of teen like scene. I loved it, it was really fun. But it was, it was the hardest thing ever. You really want to make the reader feel like warm and like, you know, kind of like the butterflies and what the character is feeling. And it’s a really interesting thing. I would, I would love to like speak to a romance author about how they get into this give be a.

C.C. Robinson: Fight scene every day.

Alida Winternheimer: So stay tuned because we’re going to have Paulet Stout on the show to talk about getting those scenes on the page. Yeah, that is one of our upcoming episodes. So I want to hear something nuts and bolts when you think about writing your books. When you were in the thick of drafting, what was one of the craft writing challenges you faced and how did you work through it? So I know you’re all on the spot, so.

C.C. Robinson: So I said I like writing fight scenes. Right. I don’t like writing emotions. So I have not only the emotion thesaurus, I also had the negative emotion thesaurus and the emotional wound thesaurus. Do you think I need some emotion?

Alida Winternheimer: So were those tools the key to getting your scenes written? That’s great.

C.C. Robinson: Yes, yes.

C.C. Robinson: And usually in revision because in the first scene, first draft, I will say like something like, I know I need emotion here, but I’m moving on, just.

K.T. Anglehart: Going on first draf. Yeah, it’s a free pass.

Alida Winternheimer: Yes. Yeah. In my historical fiction, I’d be drafting and I’d be like bracket, describe corset or hoops still round. Are they oval now?

C.C. Robinson: Bracket. Keep writing.

Alida Winternheimer: Right.

C.C. Robinson: Like, okay, I’ll figure this out later.

K.T. Anglehart: It’s all good description. Now that you say that, that’s my thing. Like it takes me forever. I don’t, like I should say not my thing. it takes me forever. I come back to it a million times. I’m not confident in the way I describe things. Also because I don’t like reading description. I’m like as I’m primarily like, my first love is script writing. Like that’s the what I learned first. And my book was actually supposed to be like a TV series. And then I dapd into books. M. I’m like, well, I need this to come to life. I don’t need it to sit on an agent’s desk for 10 years. So like I wrote it as a book and then I fell in love with actually writing books. But otherwise, yeah, it’s I lost my trackick.

Alida Winternheimer: So when you’re, when you’re spacing a passage of description, what do you do to get through it?

K.T. Anglehart: I have to come back to it in like the third draft and then I I really focus on it and like it’s so funny because I got reviews that said like, like how beautiful and vivid my description is and I would laugh. I’m like, that’s crazy because like that is the last thing I thought would be good about my book. But it’s because I’m inspired. it helps to be inspired by the setting. So the first book takes place in Ireland. The, the second book takes place in Scotland. And I’ve been to both those places. I went to Scotland three times. Like I’m like obsessed with being there. Yeah. And that’s, those are huge, huge, huge inspirations behind my book. Like the folklore around it. So like I just love it so much. So it definitely helps make things more vivid. but it is, I feel like it is a craft wise kind of difficult and I think it comes easy to some authors. It just doesn’t come easy to me. I’m a dialogue junkie. Like I love that, the snappy dialogue.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah.

Trica Copeland: I feel like there are definitely in my writing there’s definitely those layers. Like I might have like the plot line going and I know what the characters are doing, where they’re going. But then on second and third drafts I’m going to add in their emotion. I’m going to add in what the scene looks like and I’m very visual. Like I see it happening in my head. So I, I tend to do more description and have to take some out. I was really heavy on dialogue when I first started writing but developmental editors have helped me get the right balance of all of that. I think ye, it’s just going back to your work and having people give you feedback about we need more here or I need to see more here, I need to see more description here or where are they? So just getting that feedback and really learning that balance.

K.T. Anglehart: Can we just emphasize that like 10 more times? Like please get feedback from Alpha Beta, readers and get a professional editores. Get a developmental editor, get a line editor and then getting proofreader. And your proofreader should have nothing to do with the other, the other guys. Like just like have someone just proofread it for objective errors. And I’m just saying that because people are like, yeah, no, like I’m self publishing. I don’t need like no. Oh, my God. No. You need, like, you need it 10 times more.

C.C. Robinson: Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. 100%. Amen.

K.T. Anglehart: Thank you. Not much day. I don’t know, Cirle. Yeah.

Alida Winternheimer: No arguments here.

C.C. Robinson: Says the developmental editor.

K.T. Anglehart: Yeah, true.

Alida Winternheimer: Yep.

K.T. Anglehart: Little. Little plug for you there.

Alida Winternheimer: Yes. Okay. Alidawinternheimer@WordEssential.com Do. There we go. There’s the plug.

K.T. Anglehart: I did. You did it.

C.C. Robinson: You did it, right?

Alida Winternheimer: No mirror.

C.C. Robinson: That wasn’t painful at all. See?

Alida Winternheimer: No. Well, I kind of got the nudge. All right, Catherine, what haven’t we asked so far? What you burning to know from, three amazing YA authors here?

Kathryn: Oh, gosh. I want to go back to talking about relationships with friendships and subplots with them, like creating this, you know, know, myriad of sub characters. Or even, like, you guys, a couple of you have multiple protagonists, which is pretty awesome. All in the same age group. So in a teenager’s world, friends are so important. Right? So can we speak a little bit to developing that kind of group of friends that will encourage or maybe, I don’t know, raise the problems that your teenage protagonist has to work through?

Alida Winternheimer: And, when you answer, name your book again. Name Picker series again.

K.T. Anglehart: I’m justnna go first because I’m gonna forget to name my book later because I. What I’m going to say. So this is K.T. Anglehart for the Scottish girls series. Book one is called the Wise One. Okay, so now that that’s over with, so I. McKenna is my main character and her. Her best friend or who becomes her kind of fast friend is her counterpart. Like, it. It’s her yang to her Yang. Like, she is like the bubbly, positive person. And my main character, I wouldn’t say she’s Wednesday Adams. Like, no one is Wednesday Adams. Like, that is a very dark, like, hilariously sardonic person. Like, she’s. She’s awesome. But it’s that similar dynamic between Wednesday and her roommate. Like the bright one and then the sort of dark one and like. Or the one who’ things a little bit more skeptically, the one who’s more hopeful. So. And she needs. And like they. But their friendship, it just like, sparked on the page so quickly. and they do become fast friends. But one of the feedback. Feedbacks, like I kept getting at the beginning was how natural it seemed. Even though it was so quick. They’re like, it’s so weird that it’s so believable that they’re like, best friends already and that I can’t even explain how that happened, it just sort of like. It just worked really well. I think, Nissa is her best friend and she’s kind of, she reminds me of someone, a couple of my close friends. But one of them is particularly like that bubbly, positive person. And Nissa just takes it up a notch and she really balances her route. So I love, I love that about friendships in ya. I think the opposites thing is really captivating and. And you definitely need that to lift the other up, and vice versa to maybe ground someone in reality.

C.C. Robinson: Yeah. So in Divided, Marcos is the protagonist, but I write from three other points of view. Two female and one male. And I think what makes it so interesting is this is the first time that they’re all meeting people from other ethnicities. And so when you weave in the cultural curiosity and the unfamiliarity with their lives, then you have the natural, platform for them to begin relating. And they’re just blank slates. And it’s just a wonderful, thing to watch them. But we also get to see it, each protagonist from the other’s perspectives, which I think adds depth of character and also. So, you get to understand why they’re attracted to this family, this found family together and why they gel so fast together. And it just gives you an opportunity then to play with those relationships and the bromance and the girl friendships, that I think teenagers really do want.

Trica Copeland: M so again, Trica Copeland and my book Kingdom of Embers is the first book the Kingdom Journal series. And I’m just sitting here thinking. In both the Kingdom Journals and the Realm Chronicles, both of my female protagonists in the beginning are islands. Alina is a vampire witch hybrid going to a human high school. So she can’t really be real with anyone except she has a witch mentor and vampire nanny. And she has her mother that’s the vampire Chancellor. So kind of it’s hard to be relate to that character as your mother too. So, she’s sort of an island in the beginning. And it’s not t until she finds Hunter or one of the other Wes that they. Even though he’s human and has no idea what his witchw word is about, they find similarities, that they’ve been dealing with due to this curse on the witches that they both experienced. So they grow these relationships. And in the Realm Chronicles, I kind do the same with the main character there. The first book, she’s an island. She’s just up against the world. It’s just her. But then in the second book I bring in some cousins and some other characters that are help. So I think that for my character arcs that’s a little bit. Maybe that’s my own story a little bit too. But developing and knowing how to be in those relationships and if you do you see yourself as an island, having those other relationships can be beneficial a little bit.

Alida Winternheimer: Yeah. So Katherine, your takeaway from that, the difference between friendships n YA fiction and adult fiction. What’s our takeaway? Well, summarize for us. I’m really good at putting Catherine on the spot.

Trica Copeland: Yeah.

Kathryn: 100% of the time. U. I don’t know. I just. I think you guys all basically said that the relationships, the friendships are essential because they help to develop the character into who they identify as. Right. And I love that Trisha. I love that you start as an island and that they have to learn to rely on people and then CCE does the opposite. There’s four people from the get go and they’re all like learning to rely on each other.

C.C. Robinson: It’s.

Kathryn: I think it’s that as teenagers as we’re growing, as we’re developing, we’re all learning to trust one another and to open up and who we can open up to and be friends with. So yeah, why is just fiction, right? We m. It’s all the same things. It’s just that, you know, maybe it’s cast slightly differently.

K.T. Anglehart: Yeah. Beautifully said.

Alida Winternheimer: That’s why I put her on the spotive under pressuree Come out is going to be amazing. So.

K.T. Anglehart: I wish I was like that. That’s great.

Alida Winternheimer: O goodness, this is so much fun. Any final thoughts before we do the Speed round question that any of you would like to share with our look listeners?

K.T. Anglehart: There’s a Speed Round’s Speed Round.

Alida Winternheimer: I know, right?

K.T. Anglehart: No.

Kathryn: Get readyah.

Alida Winternheimer: All right, so Speed round question. recommend your favorite or a great or a classic piece of YA literature to our listeners and give us a why you’re recommending it. So.

C.C. Robinson: So I’ll go first. Go for it. I think the ya, dystopian indie space is really just filled with some amazing work nowadays. and you can go to the top 10 and see several indie authors in that top 10 in the YA dystopian space. But I want to highlight an author who is not yet there and I wonder like, why in the world isn’t she. Because it’s really good. and it’s the Flow series and Bellator Chronicles by Claire Littlemore. She has two different series the first one is climate fiction and is really well done, set in Britain. So if you like, like the British Isles, you love that. And Bella Torque Chronicles is in a far future and it’s sort of in a different place. and the women and the men have been divided up and the women have been told that the men don’t exist anymore. Except that’s not true because. Well, page five. so I think she’s writing some really wonderful fiction and not a lot of people know. So Claire Littlemore, Bellator Chronicles

C.C. Robinson: and her climate fiction, the Flow series.

Alida Winternheimer: what a Fantastic shout out, C.C. yes. All right, who’s next? Speed Round. I have.

K.T. Anglehart: So like I’m so glad you shouted out someone that’s not quote unquot quite there yet. I want to do the same because. And I really believe this, her series is like everything I want to read. and it’s because it incorporates so much nature, magic and witchiness of course. And it is like the essence of YA with a little bit more spice for those who like that. We were talking about that earlier. I don’t write it. So it’s fun. It’s fun when someone incorporates a little bit more into it. and the magic is so brilliant. So it’s Sonia, ah, F. Blanco, Witch of Wherewoods. She has a trilogy out and they’re all one more brilliant than the other very thought out world. She did such a great job. I actually edited her first book and then I couldn’t take on the rest. And they’re. They’re still. They’re incredibly.

Trica Copeland: They.

K.T. Anglehart: They’re just great. And she’s, she’s incredible too. So like I, I would recommend it highly. It needs to be discovered. and yeah, I just love it so much. It’s. It’s a lot of if those who like like tree and magical forests and that kind of setting.

Trica Copeland: It’s gorgeous.

Alida Winternheimer: Trisha.

Trica Copeland: I can bounce all of about that. and I don’t know if she’s writing anymore, but PM Hernandez does and just very. She does, Aar Gargoyle series, which I think is the Whitewood journals, which I never thought I would write. Or like Garles, of course. I never thought I would write fairies either. But her Garle series is really cool. A girl inherits a house. and these gargoyles are there and come to life and guard the house. And of course there’s a lot of discovery there. And then she also has a sci fi series. It’s kind of a dystopian sci fi series. Just very good writing. and I can name 10 of them like that. Right. But, yeah, for me, like, Cassandra Claire, if I could, like, live in her world, then I would just. I would just jump in and never come back.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent. Well, this has been so much fun. I loved this conversation. We’d love to have you all back at the StoryWorks Roundtable. And while we wrap up, why don’t you give us your name, your title, and where our listeners can find you. K.T., you go first.

K.T. Anglehart: KT Anglehart. you can reach out to me@kyngleheart.com and subscribe. I also have a substack that you can easily find at Katt Anglehartt, at ktscore, Angkleh Art on Instagram. And, you can find my books anywhere. You get your books online. Amazon’s great, though, because it boosts your listing. Right? So that’s always fun. and once again, it’s the Scottish Girls series. Book one is called the Wise One. Book two is called the Twin Flame, and the third book will be out this year.

Alida Winternheimer: Excellent, Trisha.

Trica Copeland: So, Trica Copeland. My website is trishaccopeland.com. my books can be found on Amazon. Ku. the Kingdom Journals as well as the Realm Chronicle series. Kingdom Journal starts with Kingdom of Embers, and those are also an audiobook.

Alida Winternheimer: Fantastic. CeCe.

C.C. Robinson: I’m Cec Robinson. My book is Divided. It’s part of the Divided series. book two and three are forthcoming this year. Book four will be 2026. And best place to connect with me is on my website, ccrobinsonauthor.com do and I’m also, the main novels in the series are in Kindle Unlimited, so that’s a great place to find the ebooks and paperbacks are anywhere books are sold.

K.T. Anglehart: Fabulous.

Alida Winternheimer: and if you didn’t have a pen while you were listening to this, head over to storyworksodcast.com do everyone’s link will be in the show notes.